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QUESTION:vacume any dirt/dust off the burners , vacume dust off pilot light
area. change air filter , clean blower fins if dirty . dont let a hvac
guy charge you 100.00 for doing that. its easy. they will say you need a
whole new furnace regarless of what you want done. see, hvac guys dont
want to fix anything anymore,just replace the whole furnace.
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
Mine is 30 years old and still looks as good as new because I clean
the insides and outsides regularly. Had the gas company check the
heat exchanger tubes two years ago and they're OK.
I took out the attached humidifier years ago because of window
condensation. It also had too much lime buildup on the water tray and
sponge element. A replacement sponge is ridiculously expensive.
Worse, the humidifier was fungal culture heaven. The sponge element
and water tray always felt slimey. It would have received fungal
spores, pollen and airborne particulates from the fresh air intake.
There's food and warm water to promote fungal growth. Imagine the
spores that get circulated. Respiratory distress. Or that regular
winter flu season. I haven't had recurrent winter flu for some years
now.
living in too dry a environment can lead to other health troubles.
with 1% humidity common in a clod climate with heating it can make you
vulnerable to bugs.
ANSWER: Excuse me? Problem with my analysis? I didn't attempt to make a
complete analysis of the economics in the refrigerator, only point out
the most obvious flaw in the website analysis that completely ingnored
the initial outlay for the new refrigerator. You are correct that
you can refine the analysis further, by including compound interest,
which only makes it look worse.
However, now that you want to go deeper into analysis, there are some
very big flaws in your analysis. You're saying you save $5400 in
energy cost over 15 years. You then take that amount and say it
turns into $11K if invested over 15 years. WRONG. Because the
savings of $5400 isn't available on day 1. It only becomes available
at the rate of $30 a month. At the end of the first year, there is
only a little over $360 in your bank account. So, to follow your
analysis, the correct comparison is to see how much you have at the
end of 15 years if you put $30 a month away to earn interest. And at
5%, that is $8k. And then if you want to factor in taxes, you have to
pay tax on it each year, not at the end of 15 years. That reduces
the amount at 15 years to $7K. Oh, and then factor in the present
value of money. Which is to say, your $7k savings at the end of 15
years needs to be discounted back to today to account for inflation.
Because surely you don't think $7k in 2022 is going to be equivalent
to $7K today. Assuming a modest rate of inflation of 3%, that $7K in
2022 is equivalent to a mere $4400 today. Now compare that to the
cost of the new furnace. Hmmm, doesn't look quite as good anymore,
does it?
And then you completely ignore the other side of the balance sheet,
assuming the guy has cash sitting around to pay for the new furnace or
put in the bank. How about if he takes out a home equity loan at 8%
to pay for it? Or some other financing at an even higher rate? I
also see no reason to believe that a 25 year old gas furnace that is
in good shape is going to result in 30% lower gas bills. Furnaces
were generally 80% efficient in the 80s. You can get a 90 to 93% one
now. That equates to a savings of about 14%, not 30%. Uh, oh, now
run the above numbers and you're not ahead anymore, you're in the hole
because your 15 year savings are now less than half of what they were
at 30% or around $2K. Think you can get a 90+% system installed for
$2K?
Oh, and we haven't even factored in the technology involved to get the
93% have we? What happens when one of the widgets that high
efficiency furnace has fails, that the old one doesn;t have, so it
can't fail? In other words, very likely higher maintenance costs.
Bottom line, there is no one right or wrong answer. A hell of a lot
depends on how much his heating system is used, depending on where he
lives, how he finances it, etc.
However how does any of that equate to giving the utility company free
money? You are buying gas or electric from the utility company.
The utility company has to get this gas or electricity from somewhere
and pay for it, don't they? So, how is it "free money" to the
utility company? You can certainly say that you're paying more for
energy than you would with a higher efficiency furnace, but how that
translates into "free money", makes no sense.
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More options Sep 10, 4:18 am
websites: alt.home.repair
From: OLDHVACDUDE
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:18:06 -0700
Local: Mon, Sep 10 2007 4:18 am
Subject: Re: Furnace maintenance
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 11:22:58 -0700, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>However how does any of that equate to giving the utility company free
>money? You are buying gas or electric from the utility company.
>The utility company has to get this gas or electricity from somewhere
>and pay for it, don't they? So, how is it "free money" to the
>utility company? You can certainly say that you're paying more for
>energy than you would with a higher efficiency furnace, but how that
>translates into "free money", makes no sense.
Well lets assume that both of the analysis are wrong. You still are
giving the utility company free money if you are using a 25 year old
furnace. There is no way it is at 80 percent effeincy, no way.
My company guarntees that on a system that old your utility bills will
decrease by 50 percent on the average over a year. If we tell you it
will and it does'nt then we give you the system for free, period.
I've ran that offer for five years now and NEVER given away a system,
NEVER. Without fail the bill decreases by at least 50 percent. Why?
Because we give that offer on a 93 AFUE , 2 stage, variable speed
furnace coupled with a 19 seer condenser and coil. Then we do a manual
J load calculation to insure the system is sized correctly and we
couple that with with a manual D duct calculation to insure the duct
work is sized correctly. Next, because we are in Calfornia we do a
title 24 duct test and insure that the duct work leaks less than 15
percent. Lastly you are required by us to have double pane windows and
a minimum of R32 insulation.
If you want anything other than that, then the offer of a free system
and a 50 percent savings on your utilities is off the table. Most
people go with the free system offer. For what it's worth, here is
what you get:
Trane XV90I Furnace, Trane XL19I condenser with ARI matching
Evaporator coil, 10 year part and labor warranty, Load calculation,
Duct Calculation, Title 24 compliance, all permits pulled, replace
disconnect and breaker if required, replace condenser pad if required,
replace lineset if required, replace flue and condensate if required,
cart all the junk away and leave your property like we found it. You
get all of this for 8,769.00. Roof top units are slightly more because
of the requirment for a crane.
In addition, Trane often offers rebates as well as the local utility
company. You can't beat the price unless you hire a one man band or a
hack that will be gone in a year.
Bottom line, if you want to keep running that 25 year old system then
by all means, don't let us stop you. Just know that you can do a hell
of a lot better.
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